Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that JF cannot be educated - although he, like many gooners out there have recently been unable to avoid facing up to his team's relative mediocrity when compared to the glory years of Wenger years past.
This is today's conversation...it would be interesting to hear your views on the subjects we discussed...
While writing I apologise on JF's behalf for a lack of understanding, the spelling mistakes (including names of players) and a lack of class... I have amended where appropriate to preserve our anonymity..
GWA
-----Original Message-----
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 11:35
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Looks like Eboue is out the door to Galatasray. Denilson has been loaned to his original club (probably because no one would buy him). Bendtner and Alumina seem to have one foot out the door.
And all I hear about is Wenger trying to sign British players, Jenkinson already in, last ditch effort to sign Phil Jones, Links to Cahill, Jagelika, Downing, Oxox-Chamberlin, James McCarthy and Samba. There's
even been links with Joey Barton.
I think there's a slight change of tact from Wenger. After all the nonsense surrounding the Fabregas and Nasri situation (even Merida left Arsenal to return home to Spain), Wenger wants players loyal to Arsenal.
What better way than to sign British?
Look at Wilshire and Ramsey. Are those two likely to leave Arsenal for any other club? Who exactly knows, but there's a better chance they'll spend their careers at Arsenal rather than return home to Stevenage or
Cardiff!!!
From: GWA
Sent: 26 July 2011 12:07 PM
To: JF; PEC; MJ
Players generally are not loyal any more. The only thing which would make them loyal at a 'top club' is success and money. At a 'not so' top club a player will stay if the top clubs don't come calling.
The thing about those Arsenal players is that (a) I think it is more, if not at least, the club pushing them out than the players looking to leave and (b) it goes to show that generally apart from the obvious two
(and then RVP), the rest of the squad is not of a standard to attract the top teams! Simply put Arsenal had a three great players and a squad full of mediocre players - the lack of interest substantiates that.
Let me tell you as well JF. If arsenal continue being unsuccessful, even the most hardy British player will leave if the Utd's and Chelsk's and Barca's of this world came calling.
The thing about those Arsenal players is that (a) I think it is more, if not at least, the club pushing them out than the players looking to leave and (b) it goes to show that generally apart from the obvious two
(and then RVP), the rest of the squad is not of a standard to attract the top teams! Simply put Arsenal had a three great players and a squad full of mediocre players - the lack of interest substantiates that.
Let me tell you as well JF. If arsenal continue being unsuccessful, even the most hardy British player will leave if the Utd's and Chelsk's and Barca's of this world came calling.
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 13:08
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Sent: 26 July 2011 13:08
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Regardless of Arsenal's current lack of trophies, Arsenal are competing and 'should' be able to attract quality players. But I do think Wenger wants a Britishness back in the team!
But it doesn't help when your best players want to leave. The Cesc situation is all about playing for his home club and it's unfortunate his home team are Barcelona. But then again we wouldn't hear this nonsense if his home team was Malaga.
As far as I know Nasri has already agreed £180k a week wages with Man Citeh, rejecting Arsenals £115k a week offer. If someone can tell me it isn't about money and why we're not selling him, they having a laugh!! So it comes down to the fact that Wenger needs to just cash in on both.
Let's not get overly critical. Arsenal do have other good players like TV and Sagna, the emergence of Wilshire, Chesney and Ramsey has shown they will be world class. Arsenal need more consistencey from Arshavin, Chamkah and Walcott.
BUT, Wenger has needed to act quickly in the transfer market to shore up the obvious deficiencies. With only the signing of Gervinho and Jenkinson, it's a poor effort on Wenger's part
As far as I know Nasri has already agreed £180k a week wages with Man Citeh, rejecting Arsenals £115k a week offer. If someone can tell me it isn't about money and why we're not selling him, they having a laugh!! So it comes down to the fact that Wenger needs to just cash in on both.
Let's not get overly critical. Arsenal do have other good players like TV and Sagna, the emergence of Wilshire, Chesney and Ramsey has shown they will be world class. Arsenal need more consistencey from Arshavin, Chamkah and Walcott.
BUT, Wenger has needed to act quickly in the transfer market to shore up the obvious deficiencies. With only the signing of Gervinho and Jenkinson, it's a poor effort on Wenger's part
From: GWA
Sent: 26 July 2011 2:02 PM
To: JF; PEC; MJ
Arsenal are not competing, and their lack of success combined with the fact that their best players don't want to stay means that they cannot expect to attract the top tier players.
Your mention of Malaga as an example shows that the Cesc situation is not ALL about playing for his hometown club. If Arsenal were on top in England and competing in Europe - he would not be seeking a move.
I don't believe the Nasri situation is only about money either. End of the day - Man City are now seen as a better prospect than Arsenal. In the league and in Europe. It just so happens that they choose to pay
their employees well also.
Yes, Arsenal have good players (yes, Sagna and Vermin) but make no mistake that even with Arsenal in a fragile position, no top clubs are interested in the majority of their squad or 1st team players.
The keeper is a keeper. Nothing world class about him. Wilshire has ability - but probably as a supporting act than the centrepiece. Since his return to the team, Ramsey showed how long he'd been out of the game
(he seemed well off the pace). But I will always say that if the Stoke injury didn't happen, there would be no Wilshire in his current form.
As for Gervinho - you really have to question Chamakh's position in all this, as surely Chamakh was last year's Gervinho?
Arsenal need a strong midfielder, and two centre defenders. I've heard things that Vermin will be a left back next season too...which would be questionable.
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 14:42
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Sent: 26 July 2011 14:42
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Mate, Arsenal do compete it's just when it gets to the crunch we're missing that 5% extra to Bring a trophy home.
I think if Arsenal we winning trophies similar to Barcelona I think Cesc would still want to leave. But it makes his decision easier with the fact he's not won anything for 6 years.
I think if Arsenal we winning trophies similar to Barcelona I think Cesc would still want to leave. But it makes his decision easier with the fact he's not won anything for 6 years.
Man Citeh are paying for wages with money they don't have. That stadium sponsorship deal is seriously dodgy. £40 million a year for the next 10 years screams of something wrong. But regardless of that Nasri is going for the money. I don't care if Clichy said he's left Arsenal to win trophies with Citeh or if Nasri says it when he steps over the doorstep at Citeh on first day. Fact is those two were in the Arsenal first team and meant to contribute when the crunch came, and were found wanting.
It's all about trebelling their wages.
All you've got to do is look at Chelsea. Chelsea know they couldn't continue with the have since been brought down a peg or two (aside from the desperate attempt to rescue their season with £70million spent in January). Man Citeh's bubble will burst soon, and it'll be when they're banned from Europe for not balancing their books.
As for Gervinho, we'll wait and see. I've never been that impressed by him when i've seen him play but he took his forst two goals very well the other day. But what has happened to Chamkah? He looked a great link
striker for the first half of the season and has since turned into a ghost on the pitch.
I'd love to see Wenger buy a new strong CM but he'll use Frimpong as back up to Song, when really he needs someone proven to challenge his position. I'd be happy if Wenger bought one centre back. TV will be used at left back for games against Stoke. Other than that Gibbs is first choice with Traore as back up. Another squad player Wenger can't offload!! I've heard we might be interested in Jose Enrique from
Newcastle, which might be good but it'll depend if Wenger can get rid of Traore off the books.
It's all about trebelling their wages.
All you've got to do is look at Chelsea. Chelsea know they couldn't continue with the have since been brought down a peg or two (aside from the desperate attempt to rescue their season with £70million spent in January). Man Citeh's bubble will burst soon, and it'll be when they're banned from Europe for not balancing their books.
As for Gervinho, we'll wait and see. I've never been that impressed by him when i've seen him play but he took his forst two goals very well the other day. But what has happened to Chamkah? He looked a great link
striker for the first half of the season and has since turned into a ghost on the pitch.
I'd love to see Wenger buy a new strong CM but he'll use Frimpong as back up to Song, when really he needs someone proven to challenge his position. I'd be happy if Wenger bought one centre back. TV will be used at left back for games against Stoke. Other than that Gibbs is first choice with Traore as back up. Another squad player Wenger can't offload!! I've heard we might be interested in Jose Enrique from
Newcastle, which might be good but it'll depend if Wenger can get rid of Traore off the books.
From: GWA
Sent: 26 July 2011 15:19 PM
To: JF; PEC; MJ
Cesc would always want to go back to Barcelona - but he has years to do so, so I believe that if Arsenal were credible in the league and in Europe, he would be less aggressive about wanting to leave.
As for City. Yes their Stadium deal is dodgy. Genius if it works without scrutiny - but dodgy nonetheless.
End of the day you have to acknowledge that what Clichy said, and then the messages from Nasri and possibilities with both Manchester clubs have been damaging to Arsenal's reputation. Clichy - a first teamer did not think he would win trophies at Arsenal as they current are. This is called insight, and you have to believe that as professionals, they believe they are going to a club with better prospects moving forward.
Yes City will have particular issues with (a) proving a balancing of books (b) selling on unwanted players due to high fees and wages, but we have to acknowledge their ambition.
With Gervinho, basically he has to play - which means Wenger has to fashion a system to let him play regularly, and not just when RVP is injured. As such, I do not think the 4-3-3 system is sustainable for
Arsenal. If Gervinho is the marksman they say he is, then he cannot be pushed out wide. For Chamakh however, I see a future as sub. Wenger will turn him into another Bendtner or Eduardo.
Also if you are talking about Traore and Frimpong as your first port of call as back up squad players - while at the same time it is also a strong possibility that Cesc and Nasri will leave - then you lot are in
a world of trouble.
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 15:39
To: GWA; PEC; JF
I didn't say being in the top 4 is competing. I said we have competed for trophies, and we have. Since our last trophy in 2005. UCL Final 2006, League Cup Final 2007, Top of the League for 7 months in 2007/08 season, UCL & FA Cup Semi-Finals 2009, and League Cup Final 2011. That's competing, but FAILING!
Cesc isn't being agressive at all. He's kept quiet and that's to be respected. He would have no doubt made his feelings known to Wenger, and as such Arsenal are likely to strike a deal with Barcelona. BUT, Cesc
knows Barcelona need to offer the right money or otherwise he'll be Arsenal player next year, which is probably why he's kept quiet this summer.
It's an increadibly dodgy deal and as Platini doesn't like English Clubs you can be sure UEFA will find something to make a statement and give credibility to the Financial Fair Play Rules.
Sent: 26 July 2011 15:39
To: GWA; PEC; JF
I didn't say being in the top 4 is competing. I said we have competed for trophies, and we have. Since our last trophy in 2005. UCL Final 2006, League Cup Final 2007, Top of the League for 7 months in 2007/08 season, UCL & FA Cup Semi-Finals 2009, and League Cup Final 2011. That's competing, but FAILING!
Cesc isn't being agressive at all. He's kept quiet and that's to be respected. He would have no doubt made his feelings known to Wenger, and as such Arsenal are likely to strike a deal with Barcelona. BUT, Cesc
knows Barcelona need to offer the right money or otherwise he'll be Arsenal player next year, which is probably why he's kept quiet this summer.
It's an increadibly dodgy deal and as Platini doesn't like English Clubs you can be sure UEFA will find something to make a statement and give credibility to the Financial Fair Play Rules.
I acknowledge that for Citeh to compete with the big boys they've needed to spend money in the short term to make up the gap that was there before. In doing so they've been able to get very good players and sticking with a manager they're able to create a challenging looking team. As far as I'm concerned Clichy added to Arsenal's defensive problems over the last few seasons. So for him to critise Arsenal is a pot calling kettle black! I'd take his comment's with a pinch of salt.
i believe Gervinho was used as a right winger by Lille last year, so i expect Wenger to use him as competition for Walcott when RVP is in the team. Arsenal can't revert to a 4-4-2, they'd be too venerable in midfield. It's not like we've got a Vieria and Petit partnership to have an extra striker.
Wenger's got serious problems, and the later he leaves it to sell Nasri and Cesc, the squad is going to be inept for next season. But then again if we get around £70 million for Cesc and Nasri, would you want to give it to Wenger to spend? I wouldn't.
i believe Gervinho was used as a right winger by Lille last year, so i expect Wenger to use him as competition for Walcott when RVP is in the team. Arsenal can't revert to a 4-4-2, they'd be too venerable in midfield. It's not like we've got a Vieria and Petit partnership to have an extra striker.
Wenger's got serious problems, and the later he leaves it to sell Nasri and Cesc, the squad is going to be inept for next season. But then again if we get around £70 million for Cesc and Nasri, would you want to give it to Wenger to spend? I wouldn't.
From: GWA
Sent: 26 July 2011 16:16 PM
To: JF; PEC; MJ
The fact that you mention Semi-Finals is typical.
The fact that gooners (and it isn't just you - I know others) still consider themselves worthy enough to talk about trophies is typical.
The fact that you want to mention 'top of the league for 7 months' is typical.
All those 'events' you mentioned ended up with your team losing.
CITY won the FA Cup last season
MY TEAM won the league cup in 2008 (oh, and lost in the final in 2009).
Anyway, this isn't about my team...
Cesc. His best mate plays for the club which is chasing him, and that best mate, and all his international team mates run their mouth about him. And you reckon Cesc has not given his approval for that to happen?
Let's be real. I'm not saying Cesc is behind the Barca players talking to the media about him, but I would say that he could easily nip it in the bud - which he isn't doing. Obviously publically this means that Cesc looks 'respectful', whilst still part of the publicity campaign to push a move through.
Clichy may have particular defensive issues, but at the end of the day he was your manager's first pick as left back, was there for years, and his opinion is current and important.
Jamo, are you saying that Arsenal don't have the flexibility to operate a different formation?
As for Wenger - with 70m, he could do a lot with that. Couple of defenders - 35m, top centre mid (25-30m). 5-10m change. Won't happen though
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 16:39
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Well I'm not going to mention 1/4 finals, that would be pushing it...!!!
Citeh and Spurs achieved, but that doesn't stop the fact Arsenal competed.
Maybe Cesc could nip it in the bud but then again maybe the Barcelona players are doing as they told by Barcelona and commentating on bringing Cesc to the Camp Nou. Take the Xavi comments that were posted on the Barca website recently. Could Cesc really nip that in the bud?
I'm saying Arsenal have become more or a 'Plan A team and nothing else' than ever before. It's all down to Song and the fact that he get's caught out of position in a central 2 in midfield. Wenger tried playing Wilshire and Ramsey as a 2 but at the moment there isn't enough power and strength in them to do that role. Maybe in a couple of years, which Wenger doesn't have. If we bought players like Sissoko and/or M'Vila,the typical French players Wenger was known for buying, the squad would be more adaptable to playing 4-4-2.
You've just summed it up. You can do a hell of a lot with £70 million, but Wenger won't and it all comes down to him. I feel the board, in particular Ivan Gazidis, are giving Wenger enough rope to hang himself.
Sent: 26 July 2011 16:39
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
Well I'm not going to mention 1/4 finals, that would be pushing it...!!!
Citeh and Spurs achieved, but that doesn't stop the fact Arsenal competed.
Maybe Cesc could nip it in the bud but then again maybe the Barcelona players are doing as they told by Barcelona and commentating on bringing Cesc to the Camp Nou. Take the Xavi comments that were posted on the Barca website recently. Could Cesc really nip that in the bud?
I'm saying Arsenal have become more or a 'Plan A team and nothing else' than ever before. It's all down to Song and the fact that he get's caught out of position in a central 2 in midfield. Wenger tried playing Wilshire and Ramsey as a 2 but at the moment there isn't enough power and strength in them to do that role. Maybe in a couple of years, which Wenger doesn't have. If we bought players like Sissoko and/or M'Vila,the typical French players Wenger was known for buying, the squad would be more adaptable to playing 4-4-2.
You've just summed it up. You can do a hell of a lot with £70 million, but Wenger won't and it all comes down to him. I feel the board, in particular Ivan Gazidis, are giving Wenger enough rope to hang himself.
From: GWA
Sent: 26 July 2011 16:46 PM
To: JF; PEC; MJ
So basically are you conceding that Arsenal, in it's current form will fail again this coming season?
From: JF
Sent: 26 July 2011 17:04
To: GWA; PEC; MJ
It's not really conceding anything. It's a fact that Wenger needed to strengthen this squad. With the eventual sales of Nasri and Fabregas alsongside the departures of Clichy, Eboue, Alumina and Bendtner, there
isn't a lot of strengthening going on now.
So to answer your question, Yes!
Looks like I got the upper hand on this one! As I said, excuse the spelling and grammar, this is relatively unedited office sports banter 'cut n pasted' direct from the work email. Feel free to retort, agree or generally cuss us for getting it so wrong. It's all opinion's folks!
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